[AISWorld] [EXT] Re: [External] Hiring Professor (Female Only) in Information Systems and Technology Management, UNSW Sydney

Sun Jun 12 15:09:21 EDT 2022

How do we measure inequality based on gender, age or other criteria?  Are we talking based on hearsay and even anecdotal evidence?

...Shailendra

-----Original Message-----
From: John Venable <John.Venable at cbs.curtin.edu.au> 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 11:21 PM
To: Murray Jennex <mjennex at sdsu.edu>; Michael Cuellar <mcuellar at georgiasouthern.edu>
Cc: aisworld at lists.aisnet.org; Shailendra Palvia <Shailendra.Palvia at liu.edu>; Barney Tan <barney.tan at unsw.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [AISWorld] [EXT] Re: [External] Hiring Professor (Female Only) in Information Systems and Technology Management, UNSW Sydney

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Long Island University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. - LIU Information Technology

Hi all,

Apologies for filling your in-tray if this doesn't interest you.

Like Murray Jennex, I'm not offended that UNSW wants to hire a woman. Such a hiring practice can legitimately (IMHO) help to overcome historic inequities and is appropriate - at the very least in the short term. I think it's also worth considering whether the (intended) impact is local or global. In this case, for example, it may be that female employees are so low in the area to which someone is being hired at UNSW, that the imbalance really needs to be addressed (e.g. lack of female representation on committees, etc., to give voice to female perspectives). I have in the past heard of female professors having large numbers of committee assignments and responsibilities simply because there weren't enough female professors to go around - which is another form of inequity (e.g. too much time saddled with admin responsibilities to build their research career).

Unlike Murray, I thought that putting the requirement in the subject line was a good way to save males from 'wasting' time reading the whole email or worse, preparing and submitting an application doomed to fail. I took no offence that it was stated in the subject line.

I agree with Mike Cuellar that "I would hope that in 2022, women would  be fully competitive against men on a straight up basis making such preferences unnecessary." But, hope is not enough; action is needed until that hoped for state is actually achieved. Unfortunately (IMHO), the current state is that while many women are fully competitive, their numbers are lower, their competitiveness is still being systematically disadvantaged, and the continuing lower numbers and representation is part of a vicious cycle. Same with racially-, religiously-, or sexual-orientation-based discrimination (IMHO).

Mike also raises age discrimination in hiring. I don't know what problem such practices are supposed to be fixing and I don't see a clearly appropriate rationale for that practice - seems dubious to me, but I certainly admit that I'm ignorant about it.

Finally, Mike mentions issues of transgender and non-binary identifying people with respect to gender-based hiring. This is a legitimate concern and I would hope (like Mike) that in 2022, trans and non-binary identifying people would not be excluded. But, still, hope is not enough and the issue has gotten more significant attention/traction much more recently than simple male/female gender inequality. WRT that, I simply don't know enough about (a) UNSW's hiring practices or (b) local and global trends, to be able to comment, except to say that, clearly, there is still clearly MUCH more to learn and improve in obtaining equality for LGBTIQ+ people.

Regards,
John Venable

-----Original Message-----
From: AISWorld <aisworld-bounces at lists.aisnet.org> On Behalf Of Murray Jennex
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2022 1:41 AM
To: Michael Cuellar <mcuellar at georgiasouthern.edu>
Cc: aisworld at lists.aisnet.org; Shailendra Palvia <Shailendra.Palvia at liu.edu>; Barney Tan <barney.tan at unsw.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [AISWorld] [EXT] Re: [External] Hiring Professor (Female Only) in Information Systems and Technology Management, UNSW Sydney

just my two cents worth here. I'm not offended that UNSW wants to hire a female, I get it. I am offended by the way they are doing it by making such a statement in the subject line. Someone mentioned Biden and SCOTUS, Biden made his statement solely to score political points and in the process has brought into question the legitimacy of the appointee. I think UNSW is doing the same by making such a blatant statement in the subject line. Put it in the description of the position but say preference will be given to females for your reasons, the rest of us will judge then but don't slap us in the face with the subject line. I know this is a little point, but hiring a female should not be a political issue, most of us don't care about gender but do care about the person's qualification.

One last comment, what is really humorous about this is that here in the US we no longer have a definition of female (basically its the absence of being male) so I'm not sure who UNSW is really looking to hire

Bottom line, hire who you want but don't make it a in your face political statement.....murray jennex.

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 10:28 AM Michael Cuellar < mcuellar at georgiasouthern.edu> wrote:

> As someone who has been the victim of age-related discrimination both 
> implicit and explicit in academic hiring,  whose parents were subject 
> to race related discrimination in housing and as someone who also 
> benefitted from racial minority preferences, I have something to say 
> about this subject.
>
> I understand UNSW’s desire to have more women in the faculty. Part of 
> the problems with recruiting women (and minority groups) into the IS 
> field is the fact that faculties don’t have role models for those 
> students among the faculty. It would be better for those students to 
> have people they can look up to on the faculty. However, is the right 
> way to do it by explicitly discriminating against male, trans and non-binary people?
>
> Taking an act consequentialist ethical stance, Wombat calls this 
> explicit discrimination a “moral good”, because it “alleviates the 
> problem” of discrimination against women. However we need to complete 
> the analysis of the consequences. It does make the gender ratio better 
> in the UNSW faculty and can provide roles models for women in their programs. But at what cost?
> It unjustly injures men, trans and non-binary people who have done 
> nothing against UNSW to merit such exclusion. It also teaches people 
> that we can injure people in pursuit of worthy goals: the end 
> justifies the means. It also means that potentially an otherwise less 
> qualified candidate is hired solely because more qualified candidates 
> are excluded because of an gender requirement.
>
> The counter argument Wombat puts forth is that it strikes a blow 
> against “male privilege” which stacks the deck in favor a male 
> candidates. I understand something of stacked decks. The deck is 
> stacked against older candidates in the USA. All things being equal, 
> faculties will tend to hire younger candidates (in my experience). In 
> Europe, it is explicit, if you are over 45 in certain countries you 
> flat won’t be considered. I have fully felt the sting of that and 
> don’t wish it on anyone else. I agree with Shailendra, " I am for 
> absolutely no discrimination based on gender, age, religion, and so on”.
>
> While I don’t know them, I believe that the UNSW faculty could make an 
> unbiased decision without privileging males in the hiring process.
> Perhaps Wombat is saying because of male privilege men turn out to be 
> more qualified than women and on a straight qualification basis women 
> would tend not to be selected or that there are insufficient numbers 
> of women who otherwise would wish to apply given competition with men.
> I would hope that in 2022, women would  be fully competitive against 
> men on a straight up basis making such preferences unnecessary.

>
> That being said, UNSW gets to do things the way that they want. It is, 
> after all, it is their school. I wish they would find a better, more 
> equitable, way to reach their goals.
> ----------------------------------------------
> Michael Cuellar, PhD, PMP
> Associate Professor,
> Enterprise Systems and Analytics
> Georgia Southern University
>
> Parker College of Business
> Enterprise Systems and Analytics Department PO Box 7998 Statesboro, GA
> 30460-7998
> email: mcuellar at georgiasouthern.edu
> phone: (404)-405-4510
>
> Editor-In-Chief Journal of the Southern AIS Senior Editor, JISE
>
> > On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:57 AM, wombat <c.conway at ieseg.fr> wrote:
> >
> > On 6/10/22 17:36, Shailendra Palvia wrote:
> >> Why ugly head?
> > Only a person who was ignorant of, or falsely denying the reality 
> > of,
> the built-in discrimination against women in our societies would "just 
> wonder" about the legality.
> >
> > The rest of us don't care, because someone is doing something active 
> > to
> alleviate the problem, and thus the act is morally good, whether it is 
> "legal" or not. And if you're annoyed because you feel it "isn't 
> fair", then that's male privilege. You are unware of, or unwilling to 
> admit to, the myriad ways that the deck is already stacked in your favor.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AISWorld mailing list
> > AISWorld at lists.aisnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> AISWorld mailing list
> AISWorld at lists.aisnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
AISWorld mailing list
AISWorld at lists.aisnet.org